"Jesus is eternal"
Here is what Micah 5:2 says:
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting."
The word "everlasting" can have different meanings. It can mean eternal. But it can also mean,
"continuing for a long time", or "persistant". In other words, "whose goings forth [have been] from
of old, from everlasting" can mean that the things that Christ has done or will do(goings forth)
have been going on for a long time and will continue to go on.
In the Old Testament circumcision, was said to be "an everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13), yet this commandment was later changed, making circumcision of no importance at all (1 Corinthians 7:19, Galatians 5:6). Obviously, in this case the word "everlasting" was not intended to mean eternal. Therefore, in the Micah 5:2 scripture, it does not neccesarily mean that Jesus has eternally existed.
However, as far as our finite minds can understand it, to us Jesus is eternal in the sense that He has always been our God and always will be. What we say about Jesus having a beginning by being spiritually born of God (being created) is something that we have learned from latter-day prophets and scripture. It is also something that we really don't know much about yet, nor is it all that important for our eternal life to understand it perfectly right now.
CHAD - "Jesus is the creator of all things"
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
Paul here is talking about the creation. But Jesus was not alone when he did it, as described in Genesis 1:26:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: "
This scripture identifies at least two participants when it says "our image". The other person it could be talking about is God the Father. Both God the Father and Jesus are the creators of all things. Under the direction of God the Father, Jesus created the earth and all things on it, and He created the atmosphere above the earth, and the stars, planets, and galaxies (heaven). The "heaven" talked about is not the place where God dwells. As described in Genesis:
1 IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
These scriptures identify "heaven" as the firmament where the "lights" were placed to give light upon the earth, meaning of course the sun, moon, and stars. Therefore the Colossians 1:16 scripture, which also is talking about the creation, can not be used to mean that Jesus created the "heaven", where God resides. It is talking only about the physical creation of man, animals, plants,earth, sun, moon, stars, etc.
However in Genesis 2: 4-5 it says:
"These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground."
This scripture is a little confusing in that God the Father explains that He made everything "before" they were placed on the earth. If that is true, then where did those things exist before they were placed on the earth? A retranslation of these verses by Joseph Smith gives us a clearer understanding:
Joseph Smith Translation Genesis 2:4-6
"4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven, and of the earth, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew;
5 For I, the Lord God, created all things of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth; for I, the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth.
6 And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men, and not yet a man to till the ground, for in heaven created I them, and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;"
Here God the Father explains that He made everything spiritually in heaven before it was made physically on the earth, which would include man and Jesus. After that, everything was made physically by and through Jesus Christ. Of course much of this has been made more clear to us through latter-day revelation from God, which I understand you would not be able to accept.
There are some Bible scriptures that refer to a pre-earth existance of our spirits.
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jer. 1:5)
"The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7)
CHAD - "Jesus is God(1 john 5:7, and the word in that verse being Jesus john 1:1,14)"
JOEL - Yes, Jesus(the Word) is God, but God the Father and the Holy Ghost are also God.
CHAD - "there is only one God"
JOEL - You are right when you say that there is only one God. However, the word "God" can have both
a singular and a plural meaning. It can be used to refer to one of the individual members of the
Godhead, or it can also be used to refer to the entire group of individuals. Each of the three(God
the Father, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost) are called a God, but the three together as a group, can
also be called "God". This is how you can have a scripture that says, "And 'God' said, Let 'us' make man in our image,".
As I have explained elsewhere, it is like the word "deer"; which can refer to one animal or it can mean several animals. The three of them work together as a team. They are one in purpose but not one person. When one of them speaks, He speaks for all three.
I have explained these concepts in greater detail at these addresses:
http://www.mormonhaven.com/nature.htm and http://www.mormonhaven.com/robert.htm
CHAD - "so Jesus being the created is impossible"
JOEL - There are so many contradictory statements within the Bible that I don't see how anyone can say
with certainty that anything is impossible. See http://www.mormonhaven.com/bible.htm.
Most of what we know about all this has been revealed to us by God through His latter-day prophets. But this will mean nothing to those who do not believe in that sort of thing.
My main purpose in my response to you is to show you that your interpretaion of the scriptures is not necessarilly the only way to look at it. There are many other Bible scholars from other Christian religions who claim their truths come from the Bible, yet they still disagree on many points of doctrine.
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