JOEL - Did you really read everything McConkie said in that chapter? If you don't read a few things out of context you will see that McConkie is not talking about what happens after the resurrection; he is explaining what would happen if Christ did not make the resurrection possible for everyone. We would remain as spirits only and be subject to eternal death, hell and Satan.
JAMES - How come the New Testament claims that Christ offered Himself up for the Church (Ephesians 5:5-27 and Romans 10:3) while Mormonism claims He did it for also for honest and virtuous people who were not part of those called out [e.g. see Discourses of Brigham Young, page 391).
JOEL - Paul is speaking to members of Christ's church here,
so naturally he would say this.
Here is something else Paul said on another occasion
as he was speaking in more general terms about the
world:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15: 22)
Christ offered Himself up for everyone, so all could be resurrected and live again.
JAMES - How come the NT states that with the New Covenant, the temple (House of God) is now Gods temple sanctuary - the Church (saved individuals) while the LDS Church doesnt abide this and build temples like those in the time of the Law of Moses (see Ephesians 2:20-21, Hebrews 3:6, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and Hebrews 8:4-5; 9:1).
JOEL -
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and
prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner
stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth
unto an holy temple in the Lord:" (Ephesians 2:20-21)
"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." (Hebrews 3:6)
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that
the Spirit of God welleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God
destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple
ye are." (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)
"For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
seeing that there are priests that offer gifts
according to the law:
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly
things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was
about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that
thou make all things according to the pattern shewed
to thee in the mount." (Hebrews 8:4-5)
"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." (Hebrews 9:1)
These scriptures are all using the terms temple, house, sanctuary, etc in the figurative sense to describe Christ's church or the members. The LDS church believes in everything those scriptures represent. But we have been commanded by God to build physical temple structures in these latter days; not for the ordinances associated with the law of Moses; Christ's life, death, and Atonement satisfied that. Our temples are used for a much different purpose now.
JAMES - How come the Bible states that pagan priests will not be saved (Ephesians 5:5) while LDS believe they will receive some glory? (also see 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).
JOEL -
"For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean
person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any
inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of
God."(Ephesians 5:5)
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not
God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus
Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of
his power;" (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)
The "kingdom of Christ and God"(Eph 5:5) is refering to the Celestial kingdom where no unclean person can go. They will however obtain a lower kingdom(Telestial). From this kingdom they will not experience the presence of the Lord and his glory.
JAMES - Doesnt Mark 12: 20-25 go against eternal marriage? These people (the woman and seven brothers) were married, yet Jesus clams that they would not be married after the resurrection.
JOEL - In the scenario that the Saducees presented to Jesus
they said:
"Now there were with us seven brethren:"(Verse 20).
Since they were brethren of the Saducees(who did not
believe in the resurrection(verse 18)), Jesus knew
that they would not have been married under the
covenat(eternal marriage), but only civilly married,
and so this is why He told them that their marriage
would not be valid in the next life.
JAMES - (Consult Hebrews 9:17, 2 Corinthians 3:6 and D&C 84:57) - was the Book of Mormon and the restored gospel valid and in force while Joseph Smith lived (see the D&C 84 verse that alludes to this). How then, could any testimony of Joseph Smith (e.g. the new and everlasting covenant [D&C 132]) have been in effect while he was alive if his blood made it valid?
JOEL -
"For a testament is of force after men are dead:
otherwise it is of no strength at all while the
testator liveth." (Hebrews 9:17)
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (2 Corinthians 3:6)
"And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written". (D&C 84:57)
Elder John Taylor refered to this same thing when he recorded a revelation in the D&C shortly after the Prophet's death:
"The testators are now dead, and their testament is in force." (D&C 135:5)
Anything that comes from God is valid and in force the moment we get it. The Hebrews scripture is not talking about points of doctrine; it is talking about an individual's(testator) own testimony(witness) of the truth of that thing from God. Their personal testimony or witness of it becomes more valid when they seal it with their blood as did Joseph Smith.
JAMES - If the Nephites were covered at baptism by the sacrifice of Christ which was still in the future, why did they need to offer animal sacrifices? (the Old vs. New Covenants)
JOEL - Before Christ came the Nephites were not baptized for
the remission of their sins. That could not happen
until after the atonement of Jesus. Their baptism only
represented their acceptance of the covenant and
membership in God's kingdom and as a sign of
repentence. (Mosiah 18:10-13)
Officially they were still living under the law of
Moses and because of this they were still obligated to
continue to offer animal sacrifices; but it was also
done as an expression of thanks to God:
"And they also took of the firstlings of their flocks,
that they might offer sacrifice and burnt offerings
according to the law of Moses;
And also that they might give thanks to the Lord their
God, who had brought them out of the land of
Jerusalem, and who had delivered them out of the hands
of their enemies, and had appointed just men to be
their teachers, and also a just man to be their king,
who had established peace in the land of Zarahemla,
and who had taught them to keep the commandments of
God, that they might rejoice and be filled with love
towards God and all men." (Mosiah 2:3-4)
JAMES - Does 1 peter 1:10-12 and Ephesians 3:2-10 indicate that the prophets had the gospel of Christ which they prophecised? Could Noah and Adam have been then baptised into Christ's death (Romans 6:3) before He died? If so, as LDS claim, how?
JOEL -
"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and
searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that
should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of
Christ which was in them did signify, when it
testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the
glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves,
but unto us they did minister the things, which are
now reported unto you by them that have preached the
gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from
heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."
(1 peter 1:10-12)
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3)
Since they were prophets it is quite certain they knew about the gospel of Christ and baptism. One of our scriptures tells us that Adam was baptized. (Moses 6:48-68). I don't know if Noah was baptized. Any baptisms before Christ's atonement are for a different reason than that explained in the Romans scripture.
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