JOEL - Because the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation from God that said He sweat blood:
"Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— " (D&C 19: 18)
Most Biblical scholars agree it was meant to literally mean blood coming out of His pores. The Greek word hosei (“as it were”) refers to condition, not comparison, as Greek scholar Henry Alford observed:
"The intention of the Evangelist seems clearly to be,
to convey the idea that the sweat was (not fell like,
but was) like drops of blood;—i.e., coloured with
blood,—for so I understand the hosei, as just
distinguishing the drops highly coloured with blood,
from pure blood…. To suppose that it only fell like
drops of blood (why not drops of any thing else? And
drops of blood from what, and where?) is to nullify
the force of the sentence, and make the insertion of
haimatos not only superfluous but absurd"
"We can conclude quite justifiably that the
terminology used by the gospel writer to refer to the
severe mental distress experienced by Jesus was
intended to taken literally—i.e., that the sweat of
Jesus became bloody" (Robertson, A.T. (1934), A
Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of
Historical Research (Nashville, TN: Broadman)
(Robertson, A.T. (1930), Word Pictures in the New
Testament).
PHYLIS - About having to have the laying of the hands to be a prophet - such was not the case for Isaiah. Moses (who could have done Moses?) , etc.
JOEL - One does not need the laying on of hands to be a prophet. A prophet is a calling directly from God(like Isaiah or Moses). Through latter-day revelation we have learned that ordination to priesthood offices in the Church is done by the laying on of hands. The Senior Apostle in our Church is the President of the Church. He was ordained an Apostle by the laying on of hands and was set apart as President of the Church, also by the laying on of hands. These priesthood ordinations were not needed during Old Testament times; only after Jesus set up His Church. Jesus said to His Apostles:
"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." (John 15: 16)
The word "prophet" comes from the Greek prophetes, which means "inspired teacher." By scriptural definition, a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ and is moved by the Holy Ghost (Rev. 19:10). This goes for both males and females. President Wilford Woodruff said of Brigham Young to a congregation:
"He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)
So a prophet is not ordained such by the laying on of hands, but our Church President(who is the head prophet on earth) is ordained an Apostle and is set apart to preside over the church by the laying on of hands. All 15 Apostles are called prophets, seers and revelators.
PHYLIS - According to Mormon theology, Jesus came to the Americas to preach the gospel while the in the Bible, Jesus did not do such a thing, rather, after this resurrection, he ordered his disciples to go to the end of the earth to preach the gospel. This is called the Great Commission (Mark 16:15)
JOEL - If you read the scriptures before that it is obvious that
He said this privately only to His twelve Apostles. Do
you really think His 12 Apostles actually did go to the
ends of the earth? How could He expect them to get
over here to the American continent where we know
people existed at the time He said that?
Jesus said:
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." (John 10:16)
These other sheep were those living on the American continent, which He did go and visit after His resurection so they could personally hear His voice.
PHYLIS - In LDS theology, Jesus gave a 2nd Covenant, said to be the Book of Mormon. According to the Bible, Jesus have only one covenant. See Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24 and Luke 22:20. Also, why does the D&C call the BOM the "new covenant?"
JOEL - The Old or first Covenant is the law that was given to
Moses when Israel rejected the fulness of the gospel
had by God’s people from the beginning of mortality.(Gen. 17: 7)
Paul said the Lord made a new covenant and the old
passed away:
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Heb. 8:13)
The New Covenant is the gospel as taught by Jesus Christ which is found in both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.
PHYLIS - If nobody can receive the Holy Ghost without the laying of hands by one who has authority, how can the cases of Cornelius (Acts 10:11-17), Joseph and Oliver (JSH 1:73), the 12 Nephite disciples (3 Nephi 19:13) and Adam (Moses 5:9-10) be properly explained? Acts 10:44-47 - someone receiving the Holy Ghost prior to the laying of the hands.
JOEL - The Holy Ghost can come to anyone temporarily and witness the truth of something as in the examples you gave, without the laying on of hands. If that didn't happen no one would join our church. However, we believe that the "Gift of the Holy Ghost", which gives a person the right to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost with them, is given by the laying on of hands after one is baptized(Acts 2: 38). In Acts we read:
"And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money," (Acts 8: 18)
PHYLIS - 1 Corinthians 7:7 - single state is a gift God may give to people. How can this be reconciled with D&C 131 and 132 that states that Celestial _marriage_ is necessary?
JOEL - "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." (1 Corinthians 7:7-9)
This is subject to interpretation. Does Paul really want all men to not be married? I don't think so. This would go against the laws and customs of the day. He is talking about marriage among those who are on missions like he is. In these verses he is saying that for those on missions it is better to be single as he is. But if one can not contain himself(refrain from sexual relations), it is better to get married rather than burn in Hell for a sexual sin.
PHYLIS - Book of Mormon - Jesus came to do His own will (3 Nephi 1:14) vs. Bible - only His Father’s will - John 6:38. Why the contradiction?
JOEL -
"Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfil all things which
I have made known unto the children of men from the
foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of
the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me,
and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the
time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be
given." (3 Nephi 1:14)
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (John 6:38)
I don't see a problem here. In John He said He is not doing "mine OWN will"; in other words there is no will of His own that he wants to do different from that of the Father. In the Book of Mormon Jesus said He is doing both the Father AND the Son's will. Christ's will is the Father's will, so it is not a will of His own He is doing.
PHYLIS - D&C 82:7 and sins coming back and righteousness - doesn't this go against the LDS belief that one can be perfect and made righteous?
JOEL -
"And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not
lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no
more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former
sins return, saith the Lord your God." (D&C 82:7)
This just means that if someone repents of a sin but then does it again it is as if he never repented of the sin in the first place. No one can reach complete perfection in this life. We can be perfect in some things but not everything. All we can do is try each day to get closer to Jesus and what He represents.
PHYLIS - Isn't I John 4:1 Condemnation of Joseph Smith and the BofM?
JOEL -
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the
spirits whether they are of God: because many false
prophets are gone out into the world." (I John 4:1)
Your statement can only be a matter of opinion. In my opinion considering what Joseph Smith accomplished, the spirits he communicated with were good, and he was not a false prophet. Jesus said:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in
sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening
wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather
grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but
a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can
a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn
down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matt
7:15-20)
In my opinion Joseph Smith brought forth good fruit and therefore was a true prophet.
PHYLIS - According to Romans 3:23, everyone has sinned. How come this is contradicted by page 53 of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants where we are told “…it is the power of man to…remain without sin.”
JOEL - "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23)
The 1835 verse says; speaking of Christ:
"But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin." (page 53 of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants)
This is just saying that Christ was able to live a life without sin, showing that it is possible that man could do it too. But as the Romans verse says, that will probably never happen. All people sin even though Christ showed it is possible to not sin.
PHYLIS - When Jesus told his disciples to make followers of all nations (Matthews 28:19-20 and Acts 1:8), how come no one was overlooked while the LDS Church deliberately overlooked Africans and Brazilians, etc until 1978?
JOEL - There were many members of the Church in Africa and Brazil before 1978. The missionary activity was not as active in Africa before 1978 because setting up congregations requires active priesthood holders, which of course the blacks did not get until 1978. Be patient, and give us a little more time. Eventually we will get to all nations somehow.
PHYLIS - According to Hebrews 5:9 (also see Matthew 7:13-14, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and James 1:12), Jesus became the source of salvation for all those who obey Him. How come LDS then believe that even the most evil of us, except the sons of perdition, will have salvation? In fact, Jesus indicates that only a few will make it.
JOEL -
"And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb.
8:9)
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way,
which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find
it." (Matthew 7:13-14)
We understand the words "eternal salvation" and "life" in these scriptures to mean "eternal life" with God, which can only be obtained for those who enter into the Celestial Kingdom of Heaven, which indeed will be only a few compared to all who have lived on the earth. Most others will be saved into a lower kingdom of glory.
PHYLIS - According to Luke 24 (also see Ephesians 3:2-10, Romans 6:3 and 1 Peter 1:10-12), repentance and forgiveness of sins in Christ’s name was first to be preached in Jerusalem. How can this be reconciled with Mosiah 4: 2-3, Moses 6: 51-52, 8;23-24 and 2 Nephi 31:11 that state the (I) Nephites and (ii) Adam did so? Could the atoning blood of Christ be applied before He shed it? How?
JOEL - Of course it can be applied before He shed it.
Otherwise all those who lived before
Christ came have no chance for eternal life. That
would not be fair.
But until Christ came, man would have had to suffer
for his own sins in the next life.
Before Christ came the Psalmist prayed to God:
"Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins." (Ps. 25: 18)
Why would He pray this if it were not possible?
Joshua told his disobedient people who were serving other Gods:
"Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins." (Josh 24:19)
Why would he warn them that if they continued in their evil ways God would not forgive their sins if it were not possible to be forgiven?
PHYLIS - About LDS Apostles not seeing Jesus, the number of
them on the earth and the existance of such an office-
Paul - because he didn’t see Jesus in the flesh, he
considered himself abnormally born - 1 Corinthians
15:8-9. Also, - Paul was not replaced;
The 12 Apostles + the First Presidency + the 3
Nephites apostles + John the
Beloved = 19, not 12! Why is this so?
JOEL -
"After that, he was seen of James; then of all the
apostles.
And last of all he was aseen of me also, as of one
born out of due time.
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet
to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the
church of God." (1 Corinthians 15:7-9)
I don't understand your logic here. Paul listed all
those who saw Jesus and then said that he was the last
one to see Jesus. So did he see him or didn't he?
He felt that he was the least because he had
persecuted the church earlier.
I am not sure why you say He was "abnormally born"; he
was just born at the wrong time to be there when Jesus
was still on the earth.
There is always a Quorum of twelve apostles. That
number never changes. When one dies another is
ordained to take his place to maintain twelve in the
quorum. But once one is ordained an apostle he never
loses that office; such as in the case of the first
presidency, John, 3 Nephites, etc.
PHYLIS - (Refer to John 14:10-11) - If the Father has a physical body of flesh and bones, as Mormonism teaches, then how is it possible for the Father to dwell within Jesus?
JOEL - The same way that my own father dwells within me.
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he
doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in
me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake."
(John 14:10-11)
He said a similar thing in John 10:38:
"But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him."
This is a matter of interpretation, but it is quite
clear to me at least, that Jesus is only saying that,
even if you don't believe me(Jesus), then just look at
how the Father is reflected in me because of the works
I perform. Earlier in John 10:36, Jesus identified
Himself as the Son of God. As such, one would expect
Jesus to perform works similar to what His Father
would do. "The Father [is] in me, and I in him" could
also be said for any mortal man when you look at the
similarity between what he would do compared to what
his own father would do.
In John 8:19 we read,
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
Here it again sounds as if Jesus and the Father are the same person or that the Father could be in Jesus. But later in verse 38, Jesus equates His father/son relationship to that of mortal men when He tells His audience,
"I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father."
So in my opinion He is speaking figuratively of how His Father is in Him like my own father can be seen in me.
PHYLIS - Why does the LDS Church have such a major association
with the number six which is a repersentation of
incompletness and Satan? -
The LDS Church was founded on April 6th
The LDS Church teaches that Jesus was born on April 6th
The Salt Lake andWashington temple have six spires,
like many other LDS temples Six columns surmounted by
six sunstones and six pentagrams adorned the front of the Nauvoo, temple Six
pairs of columns adorn the
walls of the Mesa, Arizona temple and those in
Alberta, Canada and New Zealand.
The Provo and Ogden temples have a single spire which
is actually a thick bottom spire with five smaller spires emerging from it
- again 6.
The LDS missionaries give six lessons to potential converts.
The Mormon endowment ceremony only speaks of six days of creation, when it is very
clear that the entire creation period took seven days. The creation and
sanctification of the seventh days was important!
JOEL - Boy you are really stretching the imagination with
this one. The Church has never claimed that it worships Satan.
Do you really think that's why the Church leaders chose the
number 6 for a few things?
The 6 spires on the temples represent the presidency
of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, each of
which have three(1 President + 2 assistants).
Jesus may have been born on April 6th, but we don't
know for sure.
I was always taught that God created everything in 6
days and rested on the seventh day:
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth," (Ex. 20: 11)
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he
had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all
his work which he had made. (Gen. 2: 2)
The seventh day was important but not part of the
actual creation periods. He took six days to create
everything.
Guilt by association is one of those logical falacies
that could be made up about anything.
How about this one:
"And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and
the cloud covered it six days: (Exodus 24:16)
Why did God choose six days of cloud cover to
represent His glory and presence on the mountain?
The number six was important in making the tabernacle
in the Old Testament:
"And for the sides of the tabernacle westward thou
shalt make six boards. (Exodus 26:22)
Noah was 600 years old when the floods came (Genesis
7:6).
Aaron was commanded to wear two onyx stones each with
six of the names of the tribes of the children of
Israel (Exodus 28:10).
Christ was condemned and placed on the cross the sixth
hour (Matthew 27:45; John 19:14).
Christ's first miracle (water to wine) was performed
on six waterpots (John 2:6).
Where do you get your information? Religiously
speaking, the number 6 is associated with man.
PHYLIS - Baptism for the dead vs. Ecc. 9:5,6,10; Psalm 6:5;
Psalms 115:17; Job
14:21; Job 14:14; Job 17:13; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1
Thessalonians 4:16,17.
Also, Alma 5:27-30 speaks of various unrepentant sins
a person can commit, then we
see in verse 31: "Wo unto such an one, for he is not
prepared, and the time is
at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!"
That certainly does not
speak of a second chance after death.
JOEL - I don't see how some of your scripture references
relate to what you are saying.
The Alma scripture says:
"Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before
God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this
time, within yourselves, that ye have been
sufficiently humble? That your garments have been
cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ,
who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if
ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye
must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is
soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.
Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not
stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is
not prepared; and I would that he should prepare
quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth
not when the time shall come; for such an one is not
found guiltless.
And again I say unto you, is there one among you that
doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon
him persecutions?
Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the
time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be
saved! " (Alma 5:27-31)
Why do you say those are unrepentant sins? Alma is
speaking to people who have access to and have been
taught the gospel and laws of God. They have had their
chance and if they don't repent now in this life they
cannot be saved in the Kingdom of God.
No one gets a second chance after death for eternal
life in God's kingdom of heaven. Where did you hear
that? It is however, possible to get a first chance
after death if one has never had a fair chance to hear
and accept God's gospel and laws in this life. After
Christ died He went to the spirit world to begin the
teaching of the Gospel to those who never had a chance
to hear it on earth. (1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18-19,
John 5:25)
"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalms 115:17)
Of course the dead could not praise God at the time this was said. Jesus had not yet been born, died, resurrected and gone to the Spirit prison to begin the preaching of the spirits there.
PHYLIS - Jesus, when he instituted the Supper, referred specifically to the "fruit of the vine" (Matt 26:29; Mk 14:25; Lk 22:18). This may be wine or it may be juice, but it certainly is not water. Also, D&C 27 clearly states wine.
JOEL - Well I am sure we don't eat the same kind of bread He used for the first sacrament either, but I don't see why this is a problem. In administering the first Sacrament, Christ himself used emblems readily at hand at the Last Supper—bread and wine. He didn't have anything else unusual made or purchased for the event.
D&C 27 mentions wine of their own making, but it
doesn't have to be wine. Did you read the entire
section? God said to Joseph Smith:
"For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not
what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye
partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it
with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the
Father my body which was laid down for you, and my
blood which was shed for the remission of your sins."
(D&C 27:2)
So according to God it doesn't matter what we use for
the Sacrament. Compared to the wine that Christ had
the alcohol content in todays wine is higher due to
distillation. So now we use water instead.
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