ROBERT -
In 3 Nephi 28 and D&C 7, 3 of the 12 Nephites are
translated and so is John. Seeing that the Nephites
and John, according to LDS teachings, held the
Melchizedek Priesthood, how could there be a complete
apostasy? Don't they have the capabilities to confer
the Priesthood, as they are supposed to be capable of
brining people to Christ?
JOEL - Acccording to President Harold B. Lee:
"There has never been a moment of time when there
hasn't been someone holding the priesthood on the
earth with power to check Satan and to hold him within
bounds. Now that doesn't mean that the kingdom of God
was present, because these men did not have the
authority to administer the saving ordinances of the
gospel to the world. But these individuals were
translated for a purpose known to the Lord. There is
no question but what they were here."
(Address delivered at Brigham Young University to
Seminary and Institute personnel, 8 July 1964.)
Joesph Smith said:
"Many have supposed that the doctrine of translation
was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into
the presence of God, and into an eternal fullness, but
this is a mistaken idea. Their place of habitation is
that of the terrestrial order, and a place prepared
for such characters He held in reserve to be
ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet
have not entered into so great a fullness as those who
are resurrected from the dead" (TPJS, p. 170).
So even though these four prophets of God did hold the
priesthood during their mortal lives they do not have
the authority to pass it on or perform ordinances
without the kingdom of God on the earth; they are only
to act as ministering angels to help bring people into the gospel.
ROBERT - In LDS teaching, Jesus was God, even in the
pre-existance and that the Holy Ghost is God, although
he has never had a mortal stage. Doesn't Abraham
3:24-26 teach that one must indeed have a mortal stage
to be a God? (the reference to inheriting different
estates).
JOEL - Here are the scriptures:
"And there stood one among them that was like unto
God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will
go down, for there is space there, and we will take of
these materials, and we will make an earth whereon
these may dwell;
And we will prove them herewith, to see if they
will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall
command them;
And they who keep their first estate shall be added
upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall
not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep
their first estate; and they who keep their second
estate shall have glory added upon their heads for
ever and ever." (Abraham
3:24-26)
Jesus did have a type of mortal stage while He was
here on earth, even though his Father was immortal. As
far as we know the Holy Ghost may or may not ever get
a body. Joseph Smith once said that, "The Holy Ghost
is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to
himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith,
Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by
Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City:
Bookcraft, 1997)]
and;
"The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which
if he should perform in righteousness he may pass
through the same or a similar course of things that
the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph
Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August
1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)
Another thing to consider is that Abraham is only
talking about the people who will inhabit the earth,
not beings that are already considered gods.
ROBERT - In "True to the faith" and other Latter-day Saint
publications and the like, the Fall of Man is often
spoken as a positive thing, as God seemingly wanted
the Fall to occur. However, how come Adam and Eve were
punished straight off after their transgression in Eden?
JOEL - Even though it might have seemed like a punnishment to
Adam and Eve it was a positive thing for the rest of
God's children that could now come to earth and work
out their eternal life. That's the way we teach it in
our Church. And what happened to Adam and Eve was not
really what you would call a punishment, but rather
just a consequence of their actions(eg. I touch a hot
stove I burn my finger). God told them that if they
partook of the fruit they would be subject to both
spiritual and physical death; and that's exactly what happened.
ROBERT - How come Moroni applied the prophecy of Joel to Joseph
Smith, saying it was not fulfilled (JH 1:41), in spite of the Book of Acts chapter 2:16-21?
JOEL -
"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour
out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your
daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream
dreams, your young men shall see visions: (Joel 2:28)
"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,
I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your
sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young
men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream
dreams:" (Acts 2:14-16)
Peter was explaining that what they saw and heard was
an example of what the Prophet Joel said would happen
in the last days. This did not mean that this prophecy
was completely fulfilled. We are still in the last
days and are continuing to see examples of this
prophecy occuring(eg. Joseph Smith) but it will not be
completely fulfilled until the second coming and Christ is here.
ROBERT - How come in the Sermon on the Mount and Sermon at the
Temple (e.g. see 3 Nephi 12:43-44 and the parallel
verse in Matthew) and Romans 12:14 we are told to
bless our enemies and not to curse them while the
Doctrine and Covenants insteads sides with the old
testament's support of cursing enemies, as opposed to
the New testament that rejects it? (see D&C 103:24-25 and 124:93)
JOEL -
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them
that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and
pray for them which despitefully use you, and
persecute you;" (Matt. 5: 44)
"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse
not." (Romans 12:14)
"And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you to
drive you from my goodly land, which I have
consecrated to be the land of Zion, even from your own
lands after these testimonies, which ye have brought
before me against them, ye shall curse them;
And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall
avenge me of mine enemies." (D&C 103:24-25)
God alone is the only one who can judge who should be
cursed(something He did in both the Old and New
Testamant, Gen. 3:17, Gen. 5:29, Gen. 12:3, Mark 11:21).
The circumstances surrounding the D&C scriptures
represented not just enemies against an individual
man, but an even more important threat against the
restoration of God's gospel to the earth. Because of
this, God Himself gave Joseph Smith the permission and
power to curse those who violently fought against the
Kingdom of God so that it might be preserved.
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